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where are you tony

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uh i am in my home office and we are now

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live okay

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hello everybody and welcome to a very

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special edition of our hubble hangouts

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uh my name is tony darnell i'm the

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social media manager at the space

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telescope science institute and this is

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a very special edition because we've got

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an opportunity to talk with people like

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two guys i have been

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very much interested in getting into a

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hangout and i finally have them here we

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only have a few minutes so we'll uh

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we'll make this as quickly as pos we'll

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make this as as uh brief as we can

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because they have other things they've

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got to get back to

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with me tonight is dr mario olivio he's

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an astronomer from the space telescope

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science institute hi mario he is an

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artist he is an author and blogger and

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his his latest book is on scientific

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blunders which we did a hangout on a few

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months back actually it was almost a

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year ago now

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which was a great book and uh i i guess

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it's been getting a lot getting a lot of

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attention uh out there because i keep

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hearing about it from people

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and uh also with me is uh dr adam reece

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he is the uh he's also an astronomer at

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the telescope science institute but he

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has um

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also won the uh he's a nobel prize

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winner he won the

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2011 nobel prize in physics for his work

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on the discovery that the universe is

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accelerating as it expands by doing

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observations of type 1a supernovae so

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welcome guys uh this week you guys have

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been very busy

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work uh putting together among other

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people a workshop at the institute uh

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called the cosmic distance ladder

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and you've been uh you've been i guess

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it's a series of talks and papers and

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presentations on

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how well we know

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how well our techniques for measuring

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the universe and how far away things are

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is that correct

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who wants to who wants to go how about

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you dr dr reese go ahead

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um yes

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we uh we know how to measure distances

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in the universe

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uh and in some cases we can measure them

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starting from

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the beginning the big bang and in other

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cases we start from nearby

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and this week we're trying to see if our

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measurements

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meet in the middle sort of like building

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a bridge from both ends you want to make

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sure they connect

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okay so the uh we're getting it i'm

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hearing your feedback come back a little

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bit hopefully that will get that that'll

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get better as we go on so why

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why do they do is this something

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astronomers periodically too do you just

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get together and uh and see how well

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you're doing uh mario so

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yeah

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this is a

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measurement of the distances uh ties

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into something very important which is

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uh the age of the universe

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and also

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we try to determine all the parameters

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that determine what our universe looks

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like

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and this parameter which is called the

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hubble constant

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um acts as as an anchor if you like to

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many other parameters so by measuring

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this to a very high accuracy and

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precision

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uh i think that we can know much more

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about our unity

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so this hubble constant tell us a little

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bit about what that what is that adam

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um

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the hubble constant is the relationship

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between how fast galaxies move away from

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us and how far away they are from us so

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if you imagine a loaf of raisin bread

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rising in the oven

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uh the further away a raisin is from

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another raisin the faster it will appear

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to move away because there's more dough

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between those raisins and so this is one

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of the amazing facts about our universe

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is that because it's expanding but

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maintaining its proportions

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when we measure ever more distant

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galaxies they will rush away faster and

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it's this important number the

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proportionality constant known as the

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hobo constant that tells us the

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relationship and the inverse of the

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hubble constant tells us approximately

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how old the universe is as mario said

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so that's the way in which we sort of

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run the clock backwards to see right

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yeah what the universe was like at

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different times of the in our in our

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history so what is the relationship is

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it linear is it a straight line is the

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farther things are the the faster

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they're going uh is it very complicated

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yeah yeah no it's actually it is linear

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yes there is a direct proportionality

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something that is twice as far appears

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to recede twice as fast

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and you know you know it would have

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basically stayed like that had it not

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been for this discovery that

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adam was involved with uh

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our universe is not just expanding but

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the expansion is actually speeding up

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so

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we need to take care of this

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acceleration and so on

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i remember um i think i

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back back in the day this was many many

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years ago back before uh like back when

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i think you were just embarking on this

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work uh adam that

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i don't think it was a very obvious in

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the beginning that the universe was

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accelerating as it was expanding

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everybody knew it was expanding we've

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known that since hubble's time but but

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the idea that it was accelerating caught

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everybody by surprise didn't i mean

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didn't i see a a paper maybe it was you

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guys who said where there was a subtitle

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called measuring the deceleration of the

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universe you were pretty sure you

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weren't going to see an acceleration

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weren't you that's right the

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expectation was that because the

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universe is full of matter

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uh the gravity between matter and the

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universe is attractive and so it would

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act to sort of put a halt or break on

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the expansion like if you took a pair of

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keys and tossed them in the air you

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expect gravity to pull them back down um

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the question really was how much matter

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is out there and so by

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how much your keys decelerate back to

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the earth you're essentially weighing

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earth we thought we were doing that

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experiment and when we looked at the

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uh

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dark energy that represents an energy

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built into the vacuum that would cause

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this repulsive gravity and the universe

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accelerator

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so that that you know that blows me away

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i mean you i'm a big fan of the nfl and

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they always tell you every sunday well

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that's why you play the game because you

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can't just say for certain how that's

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right that's why you use an experiment

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yeah and so here it's like well that's

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why we do the observations is because we

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got to know for sure uh what's going on

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so that's what you guys are doing with

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this workshop you're you're sort of

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commiserating seeing how well you're

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doing how well are we doing how well are

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we doing with that well we understand

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these cosmic distances you know until

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about 20 years ago we didn't solve the

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this

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expansion

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and we reached a situation where we're

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discussing you know is that even a

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discrepancy

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uh or not

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does it point to some new physics that

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we need to understand or you know is it

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just still within the errors of the

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method but we've made a huge huge

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advantages you know you know

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not knowing that number two within a

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factor of two to now now

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about three percent

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maybe

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another possibility is more exotic

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wow

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boy i wish i had like two more hours

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with you guys so adam adam brought up

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the uh the uh talks that were being done

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today and i want you guys to know that i

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put

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a link down in the description box of

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the event is also also put it in the

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youtube video where you can go and watch

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today's talks

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i've been watching them on and off

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throughout the day and they've been

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really really good so um you guys have a

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lot of tools in your tool bag to measure

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cosmic distances uh you've got things

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like well what what adam study which

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were type 1a supernovae we also use

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cepheid variables uh to to find out how

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far away things are

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why so many why do we have why do we

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have so many ways and and what other

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ones are there that maybe i haven't

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mentioned

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so

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methods and uh you know many of them

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will be discussed at this meeting things

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like gravitational lensing uh you know

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is

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every one of those methods first of all

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you know there are both

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both because of the statistics of the

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measurement but

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also because of what we call the

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systematics are different from different

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methods

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so only by taking the most precise

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methods that you have and combining them

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you can actually try to get above these

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systematics and see what their values

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are

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methods work better in like uh type 1a

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supernovae may be good for a certain

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distance regime i would guess and maybe

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supernova i know certainly parallax when

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you do parallax measurements and that's

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the sort of apparent shift of background

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against a foreground uh object uh

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those certainly aren't good for really

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distant measurements most

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indicators we use

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um change from being

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i would say common

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but faint those are the ones we use

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nearby

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to luminous and rare those are the ones

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we use far away so

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uh i wish that type 1a supernovae would

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all go off uh right around us you know

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100 parsecs away because i can measure

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the parallax of those although it might

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be much more comfortable for us

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but the reality is that there's

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are common in terms of a given galaxy

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so different indicators good at

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different ranges so in many cases we

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have to connect them together to get out

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to a smooth expansion of the universe

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right so basically

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like a ladder kind of where you know

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nearby things provide some of the nearby

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ones and then you know you have to go to

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the next level to provide some more runs

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and then eventually to connect to

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connect to the farthest

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with uh adam with respect to your

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research on type 1a

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uh supernova you took some observations

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and your your research involved

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obviously measuring a whole lot of these

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but wasn't that a certain instance or a

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certain period in

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in the universe's history i mean i guess

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my question is how certain are we

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that the universe has always been

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accelerating at the same rate i mean

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could it have been different at

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different times in the past and wouldn't

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we notice that through these different

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measurements that you guys are

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looking at well type one supernova use

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them to be very far back all the way

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back to about

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12 billion years out of a universe

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that's about 14 billion years old so now

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the acceleration only started about 5

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billion years ago

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before that we could see the universe

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was decelerating and what we make of

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this is that there's two important

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components in the universe dark energy

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and dark matter dark matter was dominant

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earlier when the universe was denser

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dark energy is the thing that's dominant

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now and whether that acceleration is

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constant or not really gets at what the

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nature of the dark energy is which is

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something we're trying to measure by

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observing many more supernovae wow so

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that's so that's the first time i had

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heard that five billion years ago yeah

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or when you uh the the universe was

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actually decelerating right

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wow and then dominated primarily by dark

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matter and then at some point the

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expansion got to a certain area where

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dark energy took over and started that's

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right dark energy is pretty we think

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it's fairly constant in its energy

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density but

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the density of matter drops as the

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universe expands simply because there's

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more volume and the same amount of

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matter so at some point the density of

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matter drops below the density of dark

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energy in the universe accelerates oh my

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gosh wow so what okay so i i've got to

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let you guys go but what is the what's

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in store for the rest of the week what

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what else do you have going on

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so

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we just have

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more of these different methods

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and we try you know to compare notes so

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to speak between these very different

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methods each one of them with its

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strengths and weaknesses some methods

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are very accurate but you can only find

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very few objects so at the end your

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precision is not that

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you great

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lots of objects but maybe they're not as

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accurate as that and we hope that by the

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end of the

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end of wednesday

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uh you know we will

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have scanned all these methods that we

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think can provide us with an accuracy

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and precision of a few percent

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uh and then look towards the future

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because our goal

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is to reach a value of the hubble

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constant that is

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we have an error no larger than about

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the percent or so

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wow that's that's amazing okay well guys

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i i want to i want to thank you both for

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taking time out to just give me a few

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minutes uh adam am i going to get you

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again in a hangout in the future maybe

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for a little more time

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yeah let's hang out

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good i'm glad that you say that you'll

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be hearing from me mario as always it is

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a lot of fun to talk to you thank you

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for taking time out to talk to me as

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well um i wish i had more time guys but

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i'm gonna have to let let them go

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they've got to get back to what they're